Einsteins Disease (Aired 08-20-2025): Change Management in the Age of AI: Fixing C-Suite Blind Spots | Einstein’s Disease w/ Erica Butler

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Einstein's Disease. Through real world insights and powerful conversations with industry leaders, we help you break past limitations and rethink success. Are you ready to push the boundaries of what's possible? Welcome to Einstein's Disease where we explore the challenges of overconfidence and stagnant thinking in the professional and personal growth. My name is Greg Ellers and I'm your host. Today. My co host Kenzie is on vacation. Great thing about August. Today's challenge is change management in corporate or private leadership. The degree to which technology and therefore business practices are changing reveals a large blind spot in many C suite individuals. My guest today, Erica Butler. Erica is the founder of Higher International Human Resources. Erica, it's great to have you on the show today. Welcome. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Thanks so much, Greg. It's wonderful to be here with you. [00:01:01] Speaker A: It's, it's going to be an exciting show. I know we got to catch up a little bit yesterday and some of the areas that we're going to be talking about today, Erica, are really prescient to so many companies, especially coming through this second quarter of earnings season and hearing how many businesses are reducing staff due to AI and other technological advances, which is a change management issue for a lot of companies looking at the opportunity for higher profitability, higher margins, but at the same time reducing their workforce and losing some quality people that have been in areas for a long time that have been able to help companies grow in. If you could just maybe spend a couple of minutes or a minute or two talking to us a little bit about yourself and with respect to this change management and how you see it so we can get into where we're seeing some of these problems. Erica. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Sure, Absolutely. So I've been involved with change leadership training for over a decade and it's an area that leaders can often struggle with if they haven't been trained. It's an area of expertise because you're leading differently. When there's change, you need to lead differently because you're also going through your own navigation of the change, your own feeling of chaos at times and change. But then you're expected to role model the change and drive it and lead it. So it's a topic I'm extremely passionate about because when you do give leaders these tools, when you do equip them, they can be much more successful. And just one more thing about that, McKinley, if you've heard, amazing, amazing consulting organization, I'm sure we all heard of them. They did a ton of research and they said 70% of all big organizational changes Fail without the right support and learning and training for leaders to lead through them. Well, so that's a big number. [00:03:03] Speaker A: That's 70 of anything is a big number, isn't it, Erica? So as we look at this and we look at the blind spot or the, as we like to call it on this show, Einstein's disease, where you run into leaders that think they have a program or have a path to deal with these changes. With the advent of and the adoption of a lot of AI and evolving business models. What do you see when you're working with existing clients or new clients that are coming to you and you talk to them a little bit about change management? What is it that they're unwilling to accept or they believe they're already good at that doesn't really need to have a new prescription or a some sort of training or consulting. Erica, Meaning I, you say to me, I understand you're doing this in your company. Like, I got that, Erica, I got that. But, but the business is still isn't working. And then when you dial into it, you realize they really don't have it. What is it that that is one of those key factors that C suite or leaders in companies have a blind spot to where they think they've got it, but they really don't. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Sure, great question. I would say so much of it is truly human nature where you feel fear about maybe it's AI, for example, okay, I don't fully understand how this is going to work. I don't see how I'm going to lead this to other side. So. But you feel fear and you need to prove your value because you want to keep your job. And many times when that is the case, I find fear is underneath that. Like, I got it, I can do it. You know, I'll figure it out. But then they're, they're not equipped or they don't ask for help and they, you know, that's what it is. It's a human nature thing. And they're also leading likely out of a chaos cycle. So you know, when something ends, you have denial and shock and fear and then go down into this chaos, spinning unproductivity. This is what happens in big transitions. Then once you got it, you can go, you can either give up and leave. That happens. Or awareness, acceptance, hope, optimism, confidence, you get to the other side of it. And we want to get people to the other side. So when they're operating out of that in a chaos cycle, can I even do this? They're probably not their best selves. They're probably operating out of the fear and letting that lead more than, you know, what, getting help and asking for help, if that makes sense. [00:05:29] Speaker A: It does. So when, when you talk about chaos, I think we need to explain to our audience what that means and how it happens. Because you have, in, in your career, you, you've had to go back and do what we would call after action reports to see where the problem arose, where the root cause analysis was. How, how does that, does it happen because there's bad procedures in place or leadership is. It atrophies in terms of, of recognizing changes. How's it happen, Erica? Because when we think about it, I'm going to tell you, I've already got it figured out. Right. That's the problem that you run into. And we want to find a way to provide solutions to that, which we'll do in the next couple of segments. But we really want our audience to understand how this happens. How does leadership get that way? [00:06:32] Speaker B: Sure. So just from experience, the most common thing that I see is a breakdown of communication, a breakdown in trust. So, so I'll give you one example. An organization I worked with was going through acquisition and was newly acquired by a massive Fortune 100 organization. And the people there was just breakdowns in communication. They didn't know what was going to change. There was talk of benefits, changing pay, changing their pto, changing things that mattered to them a lot. Flexibility, all these things. So when I was involved, I tried to understand what did they lose, what did they think they lost? And making sure we had a lot more communities, Communication, honest transparency and then follow through and involving them in. Okay, so right now we're learning the new processes. We're learning how the newer the big company does it. But here's the good thing. Now you have tuition reimbursement. Now you have employee resource groups. Like there's always positive, there's always good things. So the more you can help them get through what's lost in the pain and then move them towards, well, now you have access to all these amazing programs and resources you never would have had access to if this didn't happen. There's a lot of creativity in it, a lot of excitement, excitement in it and helping them lean towards that. [00:07:44] Speaker A: So, so what you're identifying is. Or not only from a communication standpoint, but in a leadership standpoint, not making your team aware of the resources that they actually have. There's an assumption that I know that Erica understands she can get tuition reimbursement if she wants to improve her standing in the company. I. And the reality is nobody's ever told her that she doesn't know. And so it's is. It's almost a detachment of leadership from the Reese, from this, the team as a whole, understanding what they actually are aware of. So communication. And most leaders always want to tell you that they're great communicators. Right. I just did a speech. I was in a TED talk, I did this. All those might be great things, but the reality is there's 400 people in your building and you haven't addressed them altogether in quite some time. That's kind of what you're saying from a communication standpoint. [00:08:53] Speaker B: It is. And also what's needed from the team, a lack of communicating what they actually need to hear, because leaders might have known months in advance, potentially, and some things they can share, some things they couldn't for sometimes good reason. So they already worked through that transition curve. They already worked through that and got to the other side, on the other side. But their team is just at the ending phase, so they have to go through it now. So I think when you're already at the other side, it can be challenging to know what do they need and their needs are going to be different than what yours are. Right. In that point. Does that make sense as well? [00:09:24] Speaker A: It absolutely does. So why does something. When you say something needs to be done about this, or the company saying, look, Erica, we need your help, and you say, well, something needs to be done about this, and you give them a prescription, what is the challenge or what is it that makes that adoption or that suggestion or path that you prescribe hard to implement? Is it because they don't believe those are the actual issues, Erica, or they think they've got that taken care of? How does that work? Because it doesn't. Not only does it come down to time, but it comes down to resources. And if I sit here and say, look, here's what you need to do to be able to be better at this, and they say, no, we don't. That's. That's fine. You're. You've got, You've got that challenge as a, as the outside expert, don't you? To be able to get them to adopt. And how do you do that? Because that's a big challenge right there in it. Maybe you can explain a little bit more about what that means. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Sure. Well, to be fair to the leaders we're talking about, I think they're going through immense pressure for acquisition to lead through that. For example, they are going through immense pressure and they have very full plates to lead through change. It's not just regular busy leadership, it's leading through change. So I think there's so many moving pieces and they can for it's just so much. It's easy to only focus on a couple things and miss a miss important thing. So I think what I've seen done very well is having all the key leaders in one room and go through standard operating procedures. What is changing? Go through each department, go through each thing and then you literally have this nice document that you give to the whole team. So they know, okay, I used to go to this person for this. Now I go to this person. You know, just really being planful and spending that time to give them the information they need up front as much as possible. It's going to be much smoother. Also I see a miss is a lack of two way communication. So organizations don't have in place focus groups, poll surveys, one on ones, whatever it takes to give the to hear where is the team at? How are they feeling? I think they're great. You do a poll survey and they're like 50% engagement. Yikes. If you have regular monthly communication built in, you can meet the team where they're at and bring them along a lot better so you know where do they stand and you can plan your communication better and everything goes through so much more smoothly. [00:12:00] Speaker A: That is a great way to end the segment on that communication and monthly check in. I like that a lot, especially in those transitioning business. Erica, can you stay with me? To our millions of viewers, we'll be right back to discuss what the solutions ahead look like and why everybody requires them. With that, we'll be back shortly. Thank you. Welcome back to Einstein's Disease. Are you loving what you're watching? Don't miss a moment of Einstein's Disease or any of your favorite NOW Media TV shows live or on demand, anytime anywhere. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and enjoy instant access to our full lineup of bilingual programming in English and Spanish. You want to listen on the go catch a podcast version of the show on the NOW Media TV website at NOW Media tv. From business, breaking news, lifestyle, culture and everything else in between. We're streaming 247 and ready whenever you are. Welcome back. Erica Butler. I really appreciated the the first block because so much of this is a challenge that so many people face and there's a acceptance that I need to do something and I'm going to give you a call and Say, erica, come on in and help. But you run into that challenge of, okay, I'm going to come in and help you. You recognize it. And yet everybody in the company hears, we're going to roll this out as a part of our culture. We're going to do this. And we do it in September. October rolls around, November rolls around, I'm busy. Calendars don't sync up, nothing happens. It's December and then we're into next year. And we met one time and everybody in the company's like, that was a waste. Right. Talk to us about how you work with leadership to get the consistency of that communication for that change management that we'll talk about in the next block, whether it be AI a merger or what, or a combination there. But let's first talk about how you work with the leadership to ensure that that communication and that consistency is there. Because that's a really a big challenge for everyone, isn't it? [00:14:28] Speaker B: Yes, it is. And I say this with great care and kindness. That is just absolutely unacceptable. If that is the case. I mean, it will absolutely fail. And if you're a strong consultant or will ensure there are really excellent processes built out for the foreseeable future, including accountability. So if there is a leader who is not role modeling the way, who is pulling the team back, who is not, if it's meetings they put in place, whatever it is, they're not doing it. A, okay, what's the problem? Are you okay? Like, make sure those dialogues are happening. B, okay, it's not a fit and there will be accountability. There will be a coaching conversation. Not with a hand slap. But hey, this is really important. Here's why. And when you behave like this, it's not what's going on pretty much. And we're going to hold them accountable for the change and that happens. And it's really hard to do it. But this is how you get to the other side and you need all the leaders on board. [00:15:33] Speaker A: No, I totally get that. When we think about that solution and you come in and you say, look, Greg, here's what you've got to do. And the most important thing is we're impacting the culture of the company. We're trying to make it better. And you have to recognize that a stop and start process isn't going to enhance the culture. It's going to send a mixed message. So you've got to be able to help that the leader or leaders. Do you do that on a, how do you do that? I mean, you come in, are you you coach them through the first one. Are you at the presentation, are you or however they go about the change management, and then are you there, back there again for to say, look, hey, it's October now, we started this in September. You've got to go again. I mean, how forceful do you feel about doing this and how accepting are the leaders of your demand for them to be accountable? Because they're paying you for this process. Right. You're trying to help their company, but yet at the same time, sometimes it's a little bit of tough love, isn't it? Yes. [00:16:47] Speaker B: And you can't do it without the head leader and you being like arm in arm. Right. If they're not arm in arm with you, then of course as a consultant you can only do so much. You can only move it so far because if you're not part of that team. So I would say up front a huge amount of support, training leaders, planning with them, guiding them through the process so they have the support to be successful and to get them through that chaos, get them to the other side, that they feel confident they can do it and they don't. We talked, you know, the other day also about failing forward. You know, you're not going to have it perfect, new systems are not going to be perfect. There'll be bugs to figure out. So we set that expectation in the beginning. We don't expect perfection. Just, you know, raise your hand when you need help. Let's have a conversation. We're problem solving through this with our team. So when you give them that much support through the process, it's rare that you need to go to the accountability because they feel supported, they feel they can make a mistake and fix it and it can go a lot better. I've seen it go much better when you give that support up front. [00:17:48] Speaker A: No, that makes sense. So when you're dealing with leadership, you have a couple of different. There's a litany of leaders, but there's a couple of real buckets that our listeners are either find themselves in or they work in because of the, their, in their environment. And that's leaders that lead to manage themselves out of a position because they want somebody else to grow into it, because that means the company is going to grow. And then you have the types of leaders we kind of call the Peter Principle, where they don't really want anybody that can threaten their job because they have a, a belief that if their job was given to somebody else that they wouldn't have another role. So you're dealing with a Couple of those are two distinct types of leaders, and they exist in every company at different levels. When you have to deal with the latter, how do you do that, Erica? Because it's. It doesn't matter. The person can be very successful, the business can be successful. But that more of that authoritarian or the reluctance to relinquish the reins makes it hard to manage some of this change management. But yet at the same time, we know they still exist. We know that they're out there running companies and they're very good at certain elements. It's just others they aren't. How do you deal with that? Because that's got to be a big challenge, not only for you, but to provide that change management that the staff can see and can say, wow, we really glad we brought Eric in. This really made a big difference for our company and our culture and everything else. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So this word can be taboo sometimes in business, but honestly, try to love them out of it. Many times it comes from fear or wanting to show that they are really good at their job. They want to keep their job. They want to show the value they bring. But showing them, we do value you and we would love to see you promoting those around you, pouring into others around you that is valued in our culture. And then further than that, recognizing leaders and recognizing performers who are developing those around them and sharing knowledge and lifting others up around them. When you have processes to recognize that and you speak about it and you celebrate that, a lot of times you can move those leaders out of that feeling and say you're going to have more opportunities, you're going to have other challenges that you'll be freed up for. We need you for now that you know all this. We need you for more in the company. You add so much value. We want, want more. And you can only do that if you find talent around you to backfill you and help and elevate your role. So those are. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So from that standpoint and your, your success and, and, and time in doing this is the challenge of getting people, as you said, I think you said, love them a little more versus leaders that are more open. Which of those challenges do you embrace the most? Not that you see it from success, but from the standpoint of dealing with people that have this block, this mindset, they know things. Which of those do you feel that you've had the most personal gratitude for being able to make that solution happen? [00:21:17] Speaker B: Sure. I'll give one example. I could give so many, but I was working with one director. Amazing Performer, amazing performer. But a lot of times when. And they have this mindset of I want to be the performer, I want to do all the work. They also don't always treat people the right way. That's not always the case. Not always the case, but sometimes. And they really hurt a manager on a call with a bank and they were really upset the manager, they were really hurt by this leader. So I got to have a one on one conversation and give feedback and the leader actually apologized to that manager and showed some humility and that meant the world to that manager and that restored that relation. Relationship. So that's just one tangible example of pulling people aside, having the tough conversations because you care. And I was very fortunate. The director caught me and took it seriously and then they grew from that. There is personal risk there. But I think when you're willing to have those one on ones and you see it and you show respect still while having the hard conversation, you can really make meaningful change in an organization and then others will follow suit. [00:22:25] Speaker A: No, that, that, that makes a lot of sense when as we close out this block and we're talking about the solution of, of delivering the message and getting the leadership to understand the consistency of fulfilling the change in their leadership style or their messaging, to be able to embrace the culture, to embrace the, the morale of the company. Can you share just briefly how you found companies that have failed kept you and you've had to go back and try things from another tack? Because in the end we all know that the first time isn't the charm, right? Sometimes it's the second time. Third time's a charm. We hear that all the time. So you have these challenges of working with these people and it's not that your solution or the programs and things that you do don't work. It's that they don't adopt it or they have a problem with it. So when you think about it and, and they're. I'm open to accepting what you want to do, Erica. I just, I wasn't able to succeed. How do you, how do you readdress that? Because do you, is it a direct conversation with leadership? Do they come to you? How do you say, you know, we got to change tax here, Greg, it's the solution that I gave you. You're just not following it. Or it doesn't work to your strengths. How, how does that work, Erica? Because there has to be a self admission, not only by you as a leader, but by me as the leader of the company that it just didn't Work, we didn't get there. How, how do you fix that? [00:24:16] Speaker B: So I learned this from an amazing leader early in my career, but I actually still do it. The five whys. When something doesn't work that we thought would work, we go through the five whys. Why did that happen? Why did that happen? And you just dig deeper to. So you're not, you're obviously need to fix something, you need a solution, you need to try it a new way. If you're, if you need to get a certain result and just digging deep, it sounds so simple, but just you need to find the root cause. Maybe you missed a root cause that would make it fail, you know, So I think just doing that as a leadership team and trying to understanding what is the root, get more data and then you try it a new way to get to the other side. And you do that until you get to the other side. [00:24:58] Speaker A: Well, that is fantastic. Well, you know why we're going to take a break is we have to pay and let our sponsors share what great products that they have. So Eric, if you can stay with me and to our viewers, don't go anywhere. We'll be back shortly. Eric, this is a great, great segment and I'm really enjoying having you today. This is something I know everybody is interested in. And with that, we'll be right back. Hi, we're back with Erica Butler, whose HR leadership lens continues to open our eyes to what truly works inside thriving companies. In this segment, we're going to talk a little bit more about some of the issues, whether it's internal recognition, external recognition, and not only the staff, but the leadership really trying to figure out how to deal with AI and the adoption of AI and what it does to productivity. And as productivity goes up, maybe there's a, in most cases, less employees needed. Erica, I know that as being on the forefront of change management, you're seeing this on a regular basis. I've got a company of a thousand people. I'm able to reduce part of my staff because of AI through what it can, what it can do. But I don't want the rest of my staff looking over their shoulder thinking, wow, I'm next. I've got to communicate that change in the technology, what it's done for the company. But I also have to be able to convey a more open and transparent way continuum of what the company is going to look like and why certain employees are so valuable. They're not only going to stay, I need them to stay, they're going to, their compensation is going to be fine. Their, their ability to work is going to be great. But it's something that leaders don't really. They, they haven't experienced this. This is all new. So they're calling you and saying what do I say? How do I go about this? And what is your. If you could just kind of, you know, give a little background to that and then some of the solutions that you're working with leaders at with today that are experiencing this on a regular basis because I know a lot of our listeners out there are and they're trying to figure out how to keep the morale and the culture together as they have to let people go. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Well, it's extremely relevant topic and question. So thank you for allowing me to be part of the discussion. I think the first most important thing that can be missed is how are we treating those that are needing to exit. That's hard for everybody involved. It's hard for the leaders, hard for the team members being exited and the whole team that built these relationships, some for decades, some for years and how we treat those and that process is extremely important because the other team members will see that and you want to leave it as the best note possible. So if you can make sure, of course their PTO is payback. They haven't. They have a nice severance package if possible. I know some small companies can't do all of that, but you can give them support, career support. Would you find an organization? We do it and many other do this. Look at their resume, practice, interview skills, help them find a placement. Doing all those things is going to make your whole organization and your team feel caught. Even though it's painful and hard for everybody involved, it's something you can do that will show how much you care about your team. [00:28:34] Speaker A: No, for sure. So I'm you, I hired you and you've come into my office and I'm like, look Erica, I built this company and, and I really haven't. I've had a limited amount of attrition but the real thing I've had is I've just had a lot of growth and now that the company's evolving and I have to really, I, I've let some people go, but I haven't really communicated it well. I think I'm. And I know I'm starting to lose a few other people that are real valuable to me that I wouldn't be letting go. How do I do? I do I do a town hall? Is this a one on one thing? I mean, how does when you're looking at this, these dramatic changes that are taking place in, in the landscape of business. Obviously corporate leadership has to address these in different ways. And I don't want the old adage of telephone where I tell Bob or Lucy one thing and then they share it with others and by the time it gets to the end the message is far different. So how do you work with leaders to be able to. Not only if they've, I've identified the people that are important but, but I don't know how fast this is going to go. What is your solution to the communication to the team? How do you go about that? What are your recommendations? What strategies do you use? [00:30:03] Speaker B: Absolutely. So of course over, over communicate all the time. Of course, town halls, emails, making sure it cascades through the whole team. Making sure the people who need to hear things things first get to hear it first. You don't want someone in the layoffs. They happen in a certain amount of time, really planful to the point of where we have communication charts that we fill out. So if everything's very organized, the leaders have the message, they feel the support of what they're communicating. So it goes well as much as possible through the whole organization. So yes, transparency and over communicate because we have so much coming at us and they're, you know, it's really important to do that. [00:30:44] Speaker A: So one word there that you use that I have a hard time with is over communication. [00:30:49] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Because I'm not good at it. I can tell you what I believe is important and my belief is that when I communicate that to you, you've heard it and it's good. And I also have a business to run. I've got responsibilities not only to everybody that's at the company maybe I've got shareholders, I've got a board, I've got some other things to, to that I have a fiduciary responsibility to. So when I look at that, I can't over communicate all the time. And so how do you go about that? Do you, do you get them to tape things? Do you, is it memos? I mean how do you. Because you, you want some consistency but you don't want that over sharing or that over communication maybe to be redundant or to provide ambiguity because that's a real problem. If I write, if I send something out or I have, you know, somebody write it, the way it's interpreted means a lot. Doesn't, does. [00:32:00] Speaker B: And we're talking about obviously life changing communication here. So stuff that's going to matter a lot. And when I use the word over Communicate. It doesn't all fall on you, Greg, or the leader of the company. What falls on you is that there's a good plan. You could say it once and that is fine, but you have a plan of how it cascades through the organization. Where can they find this information? Okay, so this means this, this means this, you know what I mean? Like, very clear. And that there's multiple places, websites, internal websites that you could, they can find it multiple places, places. Not just. [00:32:33] Speaker A: That makes that, that's really important for our listeners to understand. It's, it's, it's the consistency, but most importantly, it's the clarity for what you, you put out. So give us from a solution standpoint in this changing world, how do you see your solutions evolving with the way the industry is involving Industry, meaning leadership, because of the changes of technology and AI, how do you see your solutions changing? Or are they sure? [00:33:07] Speaker B: I think it's, you know, hr, people and culture, it's going to be needed more and more is what I see. Because things are happening so rapidly and because people are people, you know, there's, you never know when a conflict will arise or there's just more support needed because there's so much change. It's really nonstop. It's become more of the constant. Right. So I just see the need continuing to grow at this point. [00:33:29] Speaker A: And do you see people in, you know, hr, human resources, it can, it can have negative or positive connotations for a litany of reasons. I think at the, the averages is once an employee goes to HR, there's a better than 50% chance they're going to leave the company. They, they'll term out, they'll be fired or they'll look for another job. So people don't always look in 8 look at HR as a, a asset. They kind of look at it as the last stop in many cases. Right. So now you're bringing human resources into this. When you've having staff reduction because of the advancement of technology and AI, how do you help the people in hr? Because that bias or that lens that everybody sees it through, it doesn't give them sometimes, in many cases, it doesn't give them the ability to have credibility. Because if I call you from HR and say, hey Eric, I need to talk to you, like I'm getting let go or I'm, something's bad gonna happen. But that doesn't necessarily have to be the case, does it? But in this environment that we're in now, that connotation holds a lot more water doesn't it because no, it's not like the company's hiring. You already know people are be, there's staff reduction, it's in the news. So how do you work with the HR organization in terms of being able to be more at least get a little bit of an edge where people can see them as valuable versus I don't want to hear from, I want to hear from the HR manager. That's bad news. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Oh, I'm so happy you asked this. I've dealt with this my whole career and my through my whole education and what I would tell other HR organizations and any HR professional people and culture. Professional listening is just being proactive, showing your value, showing, you know, tracking the KPIs of turnover, of time to hire of you know, all of these things. Being proactive and supporting the other leaders, you know, supporting the marketing team any way you can, being an influencer to build trust across the leaders and then it cascades down. So many times I've taken over an HR role whether in full time work before we started the company almost seven years ago or not and I had to win the team over because they did not like hr, they did not trust us and I had to show them what it could be that I was an advocate for them to work better together and culture builder, a talent lifter. That's how I see it and it can be really powerful. When that is the focus. [00:36:12] Speaker A: That is a great way to end this. Back to the solution. I, I can't tell you enough about the challenges that I faced. Friends of mine, other professionals that I talk to, the solutions are there. It's just accepting the fact that you have to be able to say I don't know and I want some help. And not only that, but being vulnerable to that staff to say, look, we're all going through this together and I think you've really given us a couple of great solutions to the challenges of change management for leadership and I have really enjoyed this. We're going to take a commercial break and then we're going to come back and learn a little bit more about Erica and get some advice from Erica on our careers. So with that we'll take a commercial break and we'll be back shortly. Thank you. Welcome back to Einstein's Disease. You loving what you're watching. Don't miss a moment or any of our other NOW Media TV shows. Live or on demand, anytime, anywhere. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and enjoy instant access to our full lineup of bilingual programming in English And Spanish. Are you looking to have it on the go catch a podcast version of our show right now on NOW Media TV at our website NOW Media TV from business, breaking news, lifestyles, culture and everything in between. Now media is streaming 247 ready whenever you are. We're closing out today's conversation with Erica Butler. Eric, it's been a lot of fun going over this with you. I really appreciate the lens of change management because it shows the vulnerability of a lot of leaders. And we're going to learn a lot more about the leaders in many of our companies as the adoption of AI and other technology continue to take a bigger foothold in business. But with that being said, I want to pivot a little bit because what our audience really enjoys about this show is, is we get to learn and our audience gets to learn who our guest really is and where they, how they got to this point and then most importantly, advice that you would share with them. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Erica and, and how you got here because you've got an interesting story. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Thanks, Greg. Sure. So my background has been in human resources, people and culture since I knew you could do that from Penn State University. So I fell in love with it and what's possible very early on and just, you know, I did my bachelor's and master's and the internships led to working at Disney and other Fortune 500. Then I got to work at a Fortune 100 for about six years, which I learned so much. But that took me to a place that my husband and I both had corporate careers where we were traveling and it was very full our schedules and we started having children and we have two children. And at that point we decided we wanted to make a change and do something different. So we launched this organization, our Go Hire team that we built. And we've been doing this for about seven years. So it's still a lot of hard work running a small business, but you have the flexibility, you can manage schedules better. We're a team together and I just really believe in what we're doing and we're just getting started. So we work with small and mid sized businesses, but also do projects for Fortune 100 and 500. And yeah, we just absolutely love it and we feel like we're disruptors because to Greg's point earlier, there is a lot of hurt from other HR departments. I've seen it, I've been part of it myself. And we believe things can be better for so many organizations where their teams are hurting we believe that they could have thriving teams, and then that impacts their families, impacts their communities. So we're not stopping. We're going to be doing this for a long time. [00:40:12] Speaker A: So you bring up and appreciate the background there with you and your husband in that, and it's congratulations on your growing family in terms of age now with your. With your children, the. As an entrepreneur, because that's what you've become. You started out in a corporation as you shared various corporations with experience, but you're an entrepreneur now, and many of our listeners are entrepreneurs, and you had to cross that bridge. I know your husband works for a company, but you still had to cross that bridge and take that risk to say, you know what, I'm Erica Butler and I know there's companies out there that need my services, and I'm willing to take the risk, put my name on the door and start this business. Talk to our audience. Share with our audience that process that you went through and some of the mistakes and some of the endeavors that you've had that you think have made your company even better. [00:41:20] Speaker B: Sure. So I think when I had that crossroads, you know, just being fully transparent here, it was absolutely terrifying to leave a really great job that I had a bright future at. And I'm like, wow, are we really doing this? So it was really scary to make that change. We had to make a lot of changes personally and professionally to make that happen, but I wouldn't look back. So I think what I didn't do, Greg, I don't think I reached out for help soon enough because I had amazing people in my network, but I didn't think they would want to spend the time with me. I didn't think. I mean, I just was scared to ask for help. And when I finally got over that and asked for help, they rallied around me. They sent me clients, they sent me training materials. They really helped me, and they believed in what we were doing. So I wish I asked sooner because I think I would have got through that fear phase a lot faster. [00:42:12] Speaker A: No, that makes sense. So now that your business, your. Your you've. Your successes has led you to, to the business being here for seven years, and there's a lot of change going on. How do you, as a business owner, how do you assess your opportunities and what risk you're willing to take? You've got a business, it's got revenue, but you see opportunities for growth. Share with our audience. You know, I know your husband's the. The cfo, so he's kind of the money says that's not a great idea. Or do you really think you have the money for that or the opportunity there? But. But you have those ideas or you see those opportunities. What's your process? How do you go through that? Because everybody wants their business to grow. They don't want it to shrink and you don't want to just stay status quo. How do you go through that process of saying, you know what, I'm going to take this risk because it's going to provide me x more money or x more opportunity with the client. How do you do that? [00:43:13] Speaker B: Sure. So, yes, my husband does a great job fiercely protecting our margins. Fiercely. So that's always a dynamic, but it's awesome and I'm thankful for his support. Yeah. So we have processes in place now, which we didn't always. But in actually marketing and selling, I was very naive to that coming into this as an HR person, I didn't understand that I needed to market and sell. We always had referrals and we had, we grew with referrals. And to be honest, we are literally right now making the transition that we did hire someone to help with marketing the last year. We did. We are having selling processes in place because if you're not getting the word out, who's going to get the word out? And we have people we want to hire. We know we can help more people. So every growing company, and I learned this from this amazing group, Entre Entrepreneurs organization that I'm part of, they have to be investing in marketing and sales and you have to put cash out to grow. It's just part of the process. So if you're going to scale, get ready for that part. It's just part of it. [00:44:12] Speaker A: No, for sure. So what do you. Where do you see not only your business in five years or three years, we'll say three years, but where do you see the adoption of change management? Because, I mean, let's be frank, it's been a challenge at different times for leaders, but really it's been a pretty smooth ride. You know, you've had some. Everybody got a cell phone. It was easier to communicate your workers as much as they thought. They only worked 40 hours a week. Many of them work a lot more because they've got their smartphone in front of them. Right. So you got this productivity enhancement that didn't actually cost the leadership a lot of money. You know, there's been growth in specific areas, the economy's grown, etc. So it's, it hasn't been a lot of need for just dynamic or material change. Now we're at this time where the disruption is huge. Right. So tell us a little bit about what you see here over the next three to five years in terms of this change management. Is. Is there enough acceptance? Do you see? I mean, are you going to. Do you need a lot more people? Because the demand's going to be a lot higher. How are you addressing that? Because you're addressable markets going up. We, however many we got, 50 or 75,000 businesses that probably fall into your addressable market, you can't touch them all, but you've got something that's growing. How. How are you looking at that over the next three to five years? Are you. Are you trying to clone Erica Butler? What are you doing? [00:45:51] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Cool. So I'm actually actively recruiting, and I've been recruiting through my network. I already have people who are fabulous that I know are a great fit because I never want to have to say no to a new amazing client. I want to be ready with if, you know, if our team's full. When it's full, I'm ready with that next person. So I just have a plan of the people I'm ready to bring on. And people reach out to us because they know we have a good culture on our team. We are taking great care of each other, and they want to be part of it. And I think that's the best way you can recruit. When people hear about what you're doing and want to join. [00:46:23] Speaker A: No. That's fantastic. So in. In the last minute and a half here, Eric, what would be your advice out there, both to entrepreneurs looking to go across the bridge like you did seven years ago? And what would be your advice be to the listeners and viewers out there in leadership roles that are facing these change management? And if you, if you want to just share a brief bit on both of those, that'd be fantastic. Because I know that people are looking for advice, and it's great with Einstein's disease because they get some great advice and they get it for free. And we all know that not everything in life is free. [00:47:02] Speaker B: True. So for the first one, the ones crossing that bridge to entrepreneurship, you just don't know what you don't know. So the sooner you join an entrepreneur organization, the chamber of commerce, you need to get in those rooms and surround yourself with people who do know. And most of them are willing to help. So if you don't have a community around you, it can feel lonely and they're gonna. You can learn from their mistakes. They're willing to share and come around you. So if you don't have that, that's the best advice I could give you that I wish I did sooner. It's really powerful. And then the second one is. Can you repeat the second, Greg? Sorry. [00:47:39] Speaker A: The second one was for the leadership out there that's facing this change management. What would be your advice to them to be able to get them to cross that bridge, to say, you know what, I need help for this change management. I see what's going on. How, how would you, what would you say to them? What's your message? [00:48:00] Speaker B: Sure. I would say yes, raise your hand and get help. But stay so close to your team and, and make sure they're okay. And, and just know where they stand. Whatever it takes, you need to know where your team stands because then you can really get through it together. It's not just getting help outside the company. You can win together and show that vulnerability that Greg was talking about. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Wow, that's a great close right there. Erica Butler, it has been a great hour that we got to spend together. I know that we're going to get a lot of great feedback from our, from our viewers and listeners on this show because you've provided some wonderful insight for everyone. But with that, we'll end it. And I wish you all the very best. Erica, thanks for being here and I look forward to catching up with you again sometime in the near future. Have a great day. And with that, it's Greg Ellers, your host of Einstein's Disease. We will see you next week. And until then, have a great week. You good, Paulo? I guess we're good. Good. Thanks a lot, Erica.